March 29, 2006

In Progress: Logo Design

Without giving away too many details about how it happened, I’m currently working alongside the talented Cameron Moll on a client website for the rebirth of the centuries-old newspaper, the National Gazette. Cameron and I thought it would be interesting to write a little about the process behind the project, starting with the logo development. First a bit of background on the National Gazette (paraphrased from our client):

The original newspaper from the 1790s was sponsored by Thomas Jefferson and ran semiweekly to fight back against the Federalist Party. The paper inadvertently helped create the modern political party by forming an infrastructure based off the paper’s circulation.

The rebirth of the National Gazette this time will be in website form, and attempt to take a more non-partisan voice to politics. Cameron and I decided that each of us would put together one basic direction for a logo (with possible variants also offered). I really connected with the underdog attitude conveyed by the original National Gazette and the idea of the common man’s rights and responsibilities. I wanted to take that essence and give it a personality of it’s own. That manifested itself as a nice snarky quip in the form of a fish. Not just any fish, but one out of water and not too happy looking. I like that this could call to mind something “not smelling right” or the idea of fishes being wrapped in newspaper (“today it’s news, tomorrow it’s fishwrap”). It just has this great blue collar feel.

My logo for the National Gazette pitch

Since this was just the first round, and a rough take, I had Kevin sketch up a version of the fish—brilliantly nicknamed by Kevin as “Guzzy”—for placement and promised a much more polished version if this direction was chosen—which would have been rendered in a pen and ink style approximating a woodcut look. I set the name in a typeface called Agincourt, a beautiful blackletter that imbues a bit of history and a slight connection to the original logo (not that anyone is alive to make that connection). This paired with the more modern take from the fish sets up an interesting juxtaposition and makes for a pretty memorable and unique logo. Enough about what I think though, here is the logo I presented (both with and without fish), have a look for yourself.

Overall, Cameron and I felt the pitch was very strong (Cameron’s work came out beautifully) and as such, we didn’t really mind whose logo was chosen. We are presenting this more as a behind-the-scenes look into the design end of a client project.

That’s about it for now, head over to Cameron’s site to read about his take on the National Gazette logo.

Commentary (37):

1. Greg says… mar 29, 2006 | 11:22 am

Dang, I like the fish idea. Have Cameron make a style switcher so we can choose fish or no-fish.

2. Cameron Moll says… mar 29, 2006 | 11:28 am

Yes!

3. David O’Hara says… mar 29, 2006 | 11:38 am

“If the beaver offers you a fish, you take da fish!”

I second Greg’s idea of a style switcher but it looks like they went a different direction. Great work man!

4. Paul D says… mar 29, 2006 | 11:47 am

I think Agincourt looks great with the logo, and maintains a nice connection with the old one.

5. Khoi Vinh says… mar 29, 2006 | 11:53 am

I might steal your fish idea for a site I work on.

6. Jason Santa Maria says… mar 29, 2006 | 11:56 am

Hey! Watch it, Mr. Vinh (Diesel).

7. Tim says… mar 29, 2006 | 12:01 pm

Khoi, that one cracked me up !
I like Cameron’s modern approach, and I wouldn’t like being the client and having to choose between two great designs (which still better than having to choose between 2 crappy designs I agree…)
Thanks for sharing what’s going on behind-the-scene.

8. Chris Harrison says… mar 29, 2006 | 12:37 pm

Very cool, Jason. Thanks for sharing this on here. I never would have thought of going the woodcut fish route. I think your logo concept turned out great.

BTW - Looking forward to hearing you speak at AEA:Atlanta.

9. Mark Boulton says… mar 29, 2006 | 1:05 pm

Oooo ooo Newspaper design. Grids and type and grids. Don’t forget the print stylesheet…

Great looking fish though.

10. Dan Mall says… mar 29, 2006 | 1:22 pm

Great type choice on the logo! I really appreciate how soft the transitions of this face are as opposed to most blackletters, which makes it feel much more approachable in my opinion. Also, I think the offset white and grey “shadows” really work well in accentuating the rounded edges (relatvely speaking).

As the converse of my comment on Cameron’s logo, I think the “tt” ligature could have benefitted your version. It’s a really minute detail, but it’s the little things.

Overall, it’s inspiring work, gents. The client is in for a treat having the two of you on the job!

11. Jason Santa Maria says… mar 29, 2006 | 1:27 pm

Thanks for all the very nice comments everyone!

Dan Mall: I agree about the “tt” ligature here, and I would have definitely added it if mine was chosen in the second round of logo design. That’s when we added the ligatures on Cameron’s.

12. Natalie says… mar 29, 2006 | 1:43 pm

Looking at both of your logos, it reminds me why I am so anxious to get into a typography course. Playing around with fonts is one thing, but knowing quickly what style of font will best suit a project is tricky without some kind of depth of training. Thanks!

13. Stephen says… mar 29, 2006 | 2:01 pm

Wow, really great work! While I liked Cameron’s logos, I am really surprised the client didn’t pick yours. Cameron’s is nice, but in comparison, yours has so much more personality and distinctiveness. It really stands out and gives them a different brand. Seriously, it’s so obviously this one. I’m baffled. The client really missed a huge opportunity.

14. Walter S. says… mar 29, 2006 | 2:43 pm

Total newb question, but how do you experiment with different typefaces without owning them? I’m learning more about typography and design, but the cost of entry seems fairly steep.

15. Jason Santa Maria says… mar 29, 2006 | 2:54 pm

Stephen: Well, I’m glad you like the logo, but ultimately it’s up to the client. They definitely liked all the logos, Cameron’s just appealed to them more.

Walter S.: Luckily, many font foundries and retailers allow you to test out their fonts on their sites before purchasing (sites like Veer, Vllg, and Linotype to name a few).

16. Timothy Gray says… mar 29, 2006 | 3:26 pm

I was really impressed with the work both you and Cameron have done with the logos. Can’t wait to see the site design.

17. Dan Croak says… mar 29, 2006 | 3:52 pm

I feel like I might be crashing a private party here, but I’d like to throw my two cents in…

I’m not a designer… in fact, I’m the client on this project (hence the reason for hiring the talented Jason Santa Maria and Cameron Moll!). Much of your comments on “ligatures” and the like go over my head.

What Jason didn’t show were some of the scans of peer newspapers of the original 1790s National Gazette. “Guzzy,” the now famous fish, did an excellent job of staying true to the style of papers such as the New London Bee, the Pittsburgh Tree of Liberty, the Goshen, NY Orange Patrol, and the Philadelphia Aurora.

Even though we settled on another logo, we didn’t know what our preference was going into the project. Both designers nailed this from my perspective because they provided the right kind of options which my partners and I could compare.

18. Jason Santa Maria says… mar 29, 2006 | 3:59 pm

No way Dan, you’re not crashing any private parties here. You’re the client! We’re just happy you were open to us writing about the experience :D

19. angelday true says… mar 30, 2006 | 4:02 am

Is it time for Mr. Vinh?

20. Ray says… mar 30, 2006 | 10:59 am

The “fish” will, I’m guessing, eventually grace your… portfolio page?

21. cpawl says… mar 30, 2006 | 11:57 am

I personally prefer Cameron’s logo and think it is the proper choice for this project. The “fish” idea is a bit obscure and dare I say far fetched and reaching. Along with the explanation Jason gives it makes a bit of sense but it does not appear evident without that explanation. Sure Kevin is a great artist, but this version of “Guzzy” looks bloated and rushed.

I find a few other things not complete with this idea. The letter spacing is too tight. This becomes especially evident in the word “National”.

Although a fine choice in font, the letter “Z” is too straight, lean, and sharp compared to the follow of the other letters. Maybe if is was a point larger, a bit stretched, or re-wroked altogether.

The layout of the words and “Guzzy” in general seems off. It creates an uneven line and almost makes no sense where it has been placed and the overall size of the fish seems off.

The stroke and shadow makes the logo look a bit amateurish. I feel I have seen this logo a million times on “any” small time newspaper concept web project or high school “gazette” or “free press” publication. Of course they might not choosen the exact font you have, but choosing any black script font with a stroke and drop shadow would nearly look the same… that is until you ad what appears to be an ironic fish with a funny name.

If I sound a bit harsh please realize that is not my intention and I am sure many will disagree with my opinion. I do however think that Cameron’s logo concept is more evident, defines the brand (or at least the brand idea we are aware of), remains true the the original concept but appears modern, and above all things simply looks more professional, thought out, and makes more sense.

22. cpawl says… mar 30, 2006 | 12:00 pm

Wow, much typos in my previous post. I apologize… very tired now.

23. Dave says… mar 30, 2006 | 2:30 pm

It’s really cool that you and Cameron are willing to share this stuff with others.

When my blog joined the 9rules Network in November of 2005, I used a very old newspaper masthead as the inspiration for a redesign of Internet Zillionaire. I think this style could be making a comeback!

Thanks for the continued inspiration…

24. Greg says… mar 30, 2006 | 3:27 pm

Cpawl, you seem to have forgotten that for every negative comment you have to say three things positive.

For instance you could have just said: Jason, your work blows chunks compared to Moll’s but you have lovely eyes, a great sense of humor, and I love your pictures of urban decay (especially the really rusty ones with paint chips).

See how much better that is?

25. cpawl says… mar 30, 2006 | 3:46 pm

Greg,
You sir, are correct. Re-reading my sleepy eyed post I was a bit cruel when there was no real need.

Jason,
I simply think you missed the mark on this one and I should have stopped there. I promise to repent in some manner and to make a note that when I have nothing nice to say (especially in a commenting forum on one’s blog) not to say anything at all.

I do enjoy your writing and..um… you have sexy glasses I suppose.

26. Ian Adams says… mar 30, 2006 | 8:33 pm

You know, I liked both of your submissions. I’d have had a hard time picking one.

That’s pretty cool, though, to have a client that’s been around for that long. Were you aprehensive at all about working with a client with that much history, or do you think it made you more motivated?

27. Mike Whitehurst says… mar 31, 2006 | 3:37 am

I like the fish idea, but I think Cameron’s Trajan Pro Bold one (used on http://www.nationalgazette.org at the moment) is clearly the best.

I think it makes writing css so much easier if the logo has some color on it so you can work it into your page’s color scheme.

Nice work guys.

28. Jason Santa Maria says… mar 31, 2006 | 7:30 am

cpawl:

The “fish” idea is a bit obscure and dare I say far fetched and reaching. Sure Kevin is a great artist, but this version of “Guzzy” looks bloated and rushed. I find a few other things not complete with this idea. The letter spacing is too tight. This becomes especially evident in the word “National”.

That’s ok, man; different strokes for different folks, but I am going to contend a few things. Though, the current fish illustration is rushed. As I said in the post above, it was for placement only. A placeholder to pitch the idea. The same thing with the spacing. You will see that we didn’t tighten up Cameron’s logo until after it was picked. We typically do this to save time and energy when producing ideas. I’ve found this is a bit better for the client budget-wise than spending their money polishing things that don’t need to be polished yet.

The stroke and shadow makes the logo look a bit amateurish. I feel I have seen this logo a million times on “any” small time newspaper concept web project or high school “gazette” or “free press” publication.

Welcome to design. The point of this logo was not to reinvent newspaper design. It was intended to bring to mind similar logos and treatments. What’s more, I feel it was completely warranted since I still brought something new to it. Conceptually, Cameron and I went very similar routes: he went with something a little more modern (“modern” being used generally here) for his type treatment, and something echoing the original logo from the late 100’s used as an icon; I had the same thing in mind, but my elements are flipped.

If I sound a bit harsh please realize that is not my intention and I am sure many will disagree with my opinion. I do however think that Cameron’s logo concept is more evident, defines the brand (or at least the brand idea we are aware of), remains true the the original concept but appears modern, and above all things simply looks more professional, thought out, and makes more sense.

You do sound a bit harsh, but I believe that’s because you’re not really saying what you want to say. From what I gather, all you seem to be getting at is: you don’t like the fish concept or the unfinished rendering of my comp. Fair enough, but your critique does very little to support your points. You don’t need to explain it to me, I can understand why you or anyone wouldn’t like the fish or unfinished look of my comp. Anyway, I appreciate your opinion and point of view. Criticism is always welcome.

Ian Adams:

That’s pretty cool, though, to have a client that’s been around for that long. Were you aprehensive at all about working with a client with that much history, or do you think it made you more motivated?

Well, the paper hasn’t been active for a very long time, but I think Cameron and I were excited to see what we could do with it. I wasn’t apprehensive at all; the people at NG are just as passionate about what they do as we are with design.

Mike Whitehurst:

I think it makes writing css so much easier if the logo has some color on it so you can work it into your page’s color scheme.

We’ll get color in there before we even touch the CSS ;D

29. Adam Khan says… mar 31, 2006 | 7:59 am

I love the design of cameronmoll.com — when I first saw it I realized how pretty a web site can be. But the Trajan logo looks to me like something desktop-published circa 1986 in an attempt to look established. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Whereas the fish. The fish. I really like the fish. It’s robust, modern, playful (which require confidence), aware of its roots. I think a mistake was made here.

30. Jay Reding says… mar 31, 2006 | 9:03 am

As a Minnesotan, I do like the fish…

Then again, I can understand the client’s decision here - the blackletter form harkens back to the original, but it sounds like they’re going for a younger audience - Cameron’s designs lean more towards the modern than the woodcut/blackletter logos here.

It would be cool if they could find use for the fish - it’s kind of a memento mori symbol - which is ideal in an industry that often takes itself far too seriously for its own good.

31. Shane Guymon says… mar 31, 2006 | 1:44 pm

I loved the fish and the drawing of the fish, but that was after I read the background info about how it all connects. So i personally wasn’t able to find the connection when just looking at it. I was kinda thinking to myself, “what does a fish have to do with the Gazette?” I applaud you for your approach, and thinking beyond just a type face, and actually come up with something original and conceptual.

32. Jason Santa Maria says… mar 31, 2006 | 1:48 pm

Shane Guymon: And I think that it’s ok when a logo (or any design) for that matter doesn’t knock someone over the head with what it is. It’s ok to have some mystery and hidden meaning. There are plenty of great logos in the world that make the viewer have to think a little.

33. akjensen says… apr 1, 2006 | 8:13 am

Personally I like both designs, but for different reasons. I wasn’t surprised at all by the one they chose. As a designer, I think that both designs are on strategy, but if I was coming from the client side, I’d wonder if the potential target audience would take the “paper” less seriously if the fish concept was used. Would they understand the background and consider the online NG a serious news site or just a hip alternative to their primary online news source(s)? Of course there is no way to know which would lend to a more successful site, but it would seem to take more courage from the client to go with the fish design. Maybe you can keep that in your “for future consideration” file. Good luck and thanks for sharing the process with us here.

34. Ray says… apr 1, 2006 | 1:27 pm

The fish idea is well suited for some interesting and fun tag lines. Something about the fish being used with the National Gazette name puts me in mind of a Norman Rockwell painting and a smart, current news publication. Maybe just use it in selected sections of the site.

“Fresh content. Aroma or odor. You decide.”

“Always fresh, sometimes smelly.”

Whatever (i ain’t no writer)… you get the idea.

35. gary says… apr 1, 2006 | 6:42 pm

My first impression of the fish logo was that is was a nod to the visual wit of Tibor Kalman.


… I mean that as a serious compilment ;D

36. Britney says… apr 4, 2006 | 6:36 pm

Thought the fish Logo looked great!

37. Jauhari says… apr 26, 2006 | 9:58 am

The OLD Brand New.

This will be great… :)